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Aspects: T-square Mars/Moon/Uranus and Opposition (?) Mars/Pluto

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    • #19915
      Mario Saga
      Participant

      Hi Everyone,
      Fascinating! if i would have learnt Astrology aspects in high school it would have saved me lots of trouble :)))
      It is amazing how reducing the orbs’ factor reduces the complexity to main or core aspects and afterwards you can work your way back up. Loved it!

      Aspects
      Main planets would probably be Mars (char Ruler), Saturn (rules Moon), Uranus (rules Sun) though Uranus is in mutual reception with Sun, Moon (MC).

      T-Square between:
      Moon in Capricorn (Earth) in 10H square Mars in Aries (Fire) in 1H
      Moon in Capricorn (Earth) in 10H square Uranus in Libra (Air) in 7H
      Mars in Aries (Fire) in 1H opposition Uranus in Libra (Air) in 7H
      I guess Mars in 1H does not immediately agree with tantrums and surprises by Uranus in 7H brought through other people. Somehow Mars needs to be tamed not to react (from the preferred head on collision) and an understanding of the relationship first should be mapped before acting. So i understand the Mars-Uranus opposition.
      I see the square between Moon-Uranus and Moon-Mars. Whether other people’s feelings or my feelings are also brought into the Mars-Uranus opposition, again these feelings have to be worked out in the mapped relationship.

      Opposition:
      Saturn in Taurus (Earth) in 1H opposition Jupiter in Scorpio (Water) in 7H
      I guess it makes sense the balance it needs to be created by this relationship. I have met very strong role models (Jupiter), people in 7H. I have learned enormously from them, my personality is fully tainted by the interaction with their personalities. Saturn was there not to lose myself within their personality magnetism. Saturn observed, took down the lessons learned, coloured (and validated) them through my experiences and incorporated within my personality (1H) through my own understanding. Saturn sieved these experience, these people’s values and principles or examples on how to live (or not to live) or how to approach situations (or not to approach), but in the end Saturn ensured that i am me (i am not my role models). Thus, the opposition relationship works out in a balanced exchange.

      Trine:
      Saturn in Taurus (Earth) in 1H trine Moon in Capricorn (Earth) in 10H
      I guess the Saturn-Moon working together can be managing or dealing with the socio-professional environment with feeling (and intuition). I totally get this one, i also had a few role-models who worked like this :) first feeling (and intuition) of the environment, then comes second (flawless) strategy and structure.

      Uranus in Libra (Air) in 7H trine Venus in Aquarius (Air) in 11H (Venus is also conjunct Sun)
      Hmm… i think this is about social groups, creativity, freedom and equality. Moving from a 1-1 relationship (Libra) to group relationship (Aquarius). Totally understand this aspect working and getting along together. Brotherhood/Sisterhood type. Honestly, the more people the better :)

      Hope i got it right for the aspects above :)

      ? Mars in Aries (Fire) in 1H in opposition Pluto in Virgo (Earth) in 6H?
      Faith, i do have one question on another aspect.

      If i increase the orb in the chart (please see attached), a second T-square appears with Mars opposing Pluto, while both Mars and Pluto square Moon.
      I am intrigued why Mars in Aries (Fire) in 1H is said to oppose Pluto in Virgo (Earth) in 6H. I don’t know how to word this opposition, i don’t see a balance needed between these two… somehow, in an aspect of ‘only pure opposition’ they feel like rather working together (trine like).

      So, i have eliminated any taints from other planets. For example, Moon will whisper to Mars in 1H ‘why the […beep…] should you clean up somebody else’s mess in 6H?’. To which Mars reaction would be to growl and (annoyingly) go and fix the mess in 6H where Pluto raised it. Another example would be, if there is a difficult situation already in 6H and Saturn (and Pluto) would like it escalated, Saturn would whisper in Mars’ ears ‘let’s go and engineer dispute’ to which Mars would enthusiastically say ‘cool! Let’s do this!’. So, in these cases Mars is under the spell of Moon or Saturn before going to play in 6H with Pluto.

      So taking out these other planetary taints and looking at a ‘pure’ Mars 1H with Pluto 6H opposition. To me Pluto creates a crisis situation (war like) in which Mars can go solve (fight). So, in a way, it feels more like both working together – I mean they both like making the crisis and fighting the crisis… and they both can be brutal together. They feel close, maybe like the traditional Astrology would say that Mars rules Scorpio.

      It also true that it might not be Mars’ choice of fight. In which case it can be seen as an unwanted fight. Can you please let me know your thoughts on how you would interpret a pure (clean) Mars 1H opposition with Pluto 6H?

      Hope i worded the question in the right way to make sense :)

      Faith, thanks heaps for a brilliant presentation on Astrological Aspects :)

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    • #19926
      Sue
      Mentor

      So taking out these other planetary taints and looking at a ‘pure’ Mars 1H with Pluto 6H opposition… They feel close, maybe like the traditional Astrology would say that Mars rules Scorpio.

      You have such wonderful insight into the placements of your chart and such thoughtful articulation … it’s truly fun to read and process for me.

      I offer this technical tidbit from traditional astrology about the Mars/Pluto opposition in your chart. (Faith & others – please chime in if you see this differently!)

      No matter the orb, in this case, Mars (at 6 aries) is the faster planet and is separating from the opposition with Pluto (at 27 virgo). Mars would have opposed exactly 27 virgo while it was at 27 pisces right? Then it kept going into aries and made it to 6 Aries by the time you were born. It’s not surprising that this would not be a major aspect in your lived experience. It’s not only a 10 degree separating aspect but also an out-of-sign aspect which is much less significant. The other aspects you mention and have sorted through are probably much more significant “messages” from the Universe for you!

      Be well. I do hope you plan to or already do offer your astrology skills to clients/ people who will benefit from your insights!

      • #19933
        Mario Saga
        Participant

        Hi Sue,
        Thanks heaps for your feedback and kind words :)

        You are right, i have overlooked the speed of the planets when i was initially trying to decipher the ‘pure’ opposition.

        And you are right, the opposition should be of the Aries-Libra type and not Aries-Virgo. The angle diminishes from 180 degrees.

        Thought the question did remain with me for a day or so. Somehow there was a blind spot when searching for the answer, as i was still exploring in my head using a Saturn ‘thinking’.

        I did get another perspective though! I think in a ‘pure’ opposition between signs (doesn’t need to be Aries-Libra or Virgo), Mars is indeed ‘opposing’ Pluto and a balance is needed between the two. That is because Life is not only one battle (situation) but many battles, sometimes worked out (fought) simultaneously.

        Mars can be already engaged in a situation (fight) and Pluto adds a crisis (another situation). Too many and will have Mars spread thin between too many situations (battles) and won’t be able to cope with them. Just like a juggler with many balls thrown in the air, add one more ball and they will all drop. So Pluto does oppose (somehow) Mars by adding more crisis and thus more energy consumption.

        In my chart, these days there is ‘somehow’ a natural movement between Mars and Saturn (both in 1H) which in time has become smooth and intertwining when dealing with Pluto, thus creating a blind spot when trying to have a ‘pure’ explanation by decomposing Mars-Pluto only.

        Saturn builds dimension and structure to crisis (or many) brought by Pluto in order for Mars not to spread thin. Like: is this an important battle (situation) or less important? can it be won easy or hard? is this a battle we can afford to lose now and win later? will it take a long time to fight or is short (in and out)? can it be delayed or needs to be handled right NOW? are there any allies that can be sent? can it be won politically (by throwing confusion and see if the opposition is just smoke)? … and so on. Once this matrix (dimension-structure) is built by Saturn, then Mars is just laser guided to focal points.

        Thanks Sue, appreciate the help and support :)

    • #19930
      Faith
      Facilitator

      Mario, you have a great deal of clarity regarding your own inner dynamics.

      Also totally agree with you when you say:

      It is amazing how reducing the orbs’ factor reduces the complexity to main or core aspects and afterwards you can work your way back up.

      I always recommend beginners to tighten up their orbs. It makes the chart so much clearer to read as the really strong dynamics become very obvious.

      Regarding your question, as Sue has said this opposition between Mars and Pluto is separating, as well as being ‘out-of-sign’, and ‘out-of-house.’ A true opposition is between two signs in the same polarity and would be between the 1st and 7th houses, not the 1st and 6th. That is not to say that there cannot be out-of-house or out-of-sign oppositions, but in your case I don’t feel it is likely to have an affect. This is for two reasons:

      1. The orb is almost 10 degrees – way to wide for these guys
      2. The aspect is separating

      The concept of applying and separating aspects becomes very interesting when you consider the ongoing ‘progression’ of your natal chart through the course of your life. Like a clock ticking around the houses and planets creep forward over the course of our lives, creating new aspects and perfecting applying ones.

      So, if you imagine an applying square of 10 degrees orb between Mars and Pluto, then at approximately age 10 the aspect would perfect and you would then spend your entire adolescence with this aspect playing out very strongly. Do you see how it works?

      By contrast, the square from Pluto to the Moon is considered differently. It too is separating. It too is out of sign. However because it is the Moon, an orb of 4.5 degrees is considered ok. It is likely still having an affect. In this case the aspect would likely be experienced as habitual patterns of emotional self-sabotage, perhaps jealousy, perhaps fear of or experiences of real or perceived betrayal that trigger very deep emotional responses.

      However the individual probably feels as if they are growing out of these patterns, and will very likely, over the course of their lifetime, learn to overcome and shift these patterns, probably even in early life. The Moon has already transited into the same element as Pluto (Earth) and so they are already beginning to interact more harmoniously.

      The opposition between Chiron and Uranus is an interesting one. It is within 5 degrees orb and at first glance it appears to be separating but if you look more closely you see that because Uranus is retrograde the aspect is actually applying. However this aspect will not perfect in your lifetime, or even come within orb so this opposition too is unlikely to have a very strong impact on you, and neither the opposition between Chiron and Pluto.

      If you want to know more about progressions (not covered in this course) there is a good introductory article on my blog.

      • #19934
        Mario Saga
        Participant

        Hi Faith,
        Thanks heaps for the feedback :)

        Your explanation makes total sense and sheds light on the interaction.

        Sue’s explanation was great :) I have also managed to get my head around what a ‘pure’ opposition Mars-Pluto (if there was perfect opposition between signs) would have been in my reply to her.

        On the:

        By contrast, the square from Pluto to the Moon is considered differently. It too is separating. It too is out of sign. However because it is the Moon, an orb of 4.5 degrees is considered ok. It is likely still having an affect. In this case the aspect would likely be experienced as habitual patterns of emotional self-sabotage, perhaps jealousy, perhaps fear of or experiences of real or perceived betrayal that trigger very deep emotional responses.

        it is a great insight in your reading of the aspect… it didn’t cross my mind to read it like that… absolutely well worded! had plenty of experiences and lots of re-balance to make!

        I will definitely check the progressions link … thanks for sharing :)

        On Chiron, good question! haven’t thought on that… are we covering more on Chiron in this course? unless I missed something already… if not, can you please let me know of a good link :)

        I appreciate very much your insights and directions for more exploration :)

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