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Astrology does not tell it all

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    • #6400

      Hi all,
      I used to be an “Astrology Fanatic” equating everything to the “stars”.
      Nowadays however, I take astrology a bit more with a pinch of salt.

      I still believe astrology is very accurate when it comes to human personality traits -and animals for that matter- but it seems it/Astrology is not as potent anymore when it comes to predictions. Or perhaps it is I don’t BELIEVE the predictions?!

      I want to mention the Law of Attraction (LOA) in this context. LOA basically says that thought is creative and we attract what we think about and put our attention to….Let’s say I worry about something and it is constantly on my mind (focus). But my worries never come to pass. This makes me disbelieve the theories of LOA.
      I believe more in destiny, which may rub some people up the wrong way, but that is my experience and belief. Let’s say “it was meant to be” and it will show up in the birth chart (you may have to look hard to find it).

      Just some personal reflections on Astrology and life.


    • #6401

      I completely agree, and I have learned to look at astrology like a weather prediction. when it rains we use an umbrella, or if it’s cold, we wear a coat, or in fog, we move with caution. This if for predictions in the outer world.

      Yet as a map of the psyche, and internal dynamics, I really see it as useful and and a source of insight, once we master the multiple meanings [words] of houses, signs and planets and signs and the grammar[aspects] that helps us make sense of them. I have found that the chart can be like a projection screen and we can often objectify our problems using this map.

      Astrology certainly is a mystery, but if it had no merit, I doubt it would have held on all these years. Since we don’t really live in a geocentric universe, with our earth revolving around the sun, I have often wondered if the stars are just markers for another unknown force. – We mistake the stars for the cause, when they are also influenced by this greater cause. It’s like mistaking the thermostat dial on the wall as the source of heat, when it is really just a marker or measure of the heater. If we didn’t know any better we might think that moving the thermostat dial is the source and not just a marker.

      Thanks for an interesting Post.


    • #6403

      @Lift-the-Fog and @Linda, I third your conclusions. Astrology definitely does not tell it all. I also think that it is misguided to blame the “stars” or to look to the “stars” to tell us what exactly to do with our lives or how things will work out for us or anyone else in this life. Doing so would amount to giving away one’s power.

      However, I’ve found that Astrology – employed in concert with a bunch of other human spheres of knowledge, – does provide important clues to the way life might evolve/devolve and how people might behave in various circumstances. For me, astrology is more of a very insightful (intuition-based) symbolic language useful for self-discovery and for honing one’s personality by relying on relevant, empowering spiritual precepts of human existence.

      I’ve also noticed that learning how to generate accurate daily astrological (weather) forecasts involves mastering a wide range of knowledge beyond astrological symbols, and a particular level of open-mindedness (authenticity) that will not take us down a destructive path of self-delusion. This is why I believe in the kind of astrology studies that explore the role of “free will” in the way a natal chart expresses itself throughout its owner’s life. Though, it appears that the concepts of karma/destiny are closely enmeshed with the way one’s “free will” is able to operate and come into play.

    • #6404

      Hello @AnhP, and @lift-the-fog,

      I always remember an essay I read in College about freedom, in lower case and upper case: Freedom and freedom. Freedom exists insofar as we are able to exercise it. That means that absolute Freedom exists, yet is relative to our circumstances, since our conditions of birth are very different and not equally endowed, how we experience and exercise freedom is very different.

      Yet there are amazing exceptions of people who rise above circumstances and limitations, who seem to transcend limitations of birth, and so I conclude that Freedom must be an internal, spiritual condition – I mean the freedom to see and understand and draw conclusions. It seems like the freedom of mobility is something else.

      I wonder if the chart can show the potential for freedom of choice and transcendence of circumstance. If I had to guess, it would be a sharp square or opposition that shows a conflict or struggle, as people born into physical and or emotional comfort, ease and safety don’t always struggle against circumstance. [trine]

      As you say, @anhP, Karma and destiny, or what I have called conditions of birth, play a big role. I feel these questions of choice and personal freedom, are foundational to astrology, as the popular practice can often take a fated or stereotypical approach. That is why I like the evolutionary approach.

    • #6411

      In terms of LOA, it is not a straight line from A-B. Lets say, If you worry about money, it does not always mean that you will lose money. Lets look at what money represent: Freedom, Ease, Happiness in some cases, Security, Luxury ect. In LOA, any one of these areas can come up as a result of focusing on worry. Also, even if you worry about something, positive thoughts are more powerful, so lets say you spend time worrying, but the majority of your time is spent feeling okay and at ease with something else in your life – you shift the vibration of all things from this space and most times, what we worry about, actually does not come to pass! :) There is no causation – only correlation.

      Astrology was never meant to be or remain as a predictive tool. Predictions stem from fear of the unknown and the desire to control the unforeseen. However, the reason why it is losing its place is because as a collective, we are awakening to our ultimate power of being. We are too powerful in the present moment for predictions to work in the future. We have always been able to alter ourselves at any given moment, but a prediction from someone you trust, becomes a belief and a belief is focused energy- if you believe the prediction, you bring it to you, not because it was always going to happen, but because you believed it into existence.

      I felt this strongly from a young age when I found Astrology and immediately was turned off of “Predicting” anything. On a soul level, I feel it stems from fear, but also as a form of control. How do you keep people in check? Make them believe you have knowledge nobody else has and how do you wield that control is by instilling fear of the unknown and raise yourself above that fear to have their answers. It was interesting how visceral this feeling was in me in the beginning and I only became more passionate about advocating for personal choice and responsibility to see to personal freedom.

      Astrology and LOA are interesting together because Everything. Connects. and it is always all our doing. From designing the way we remember who we are, to the family we are born into and how we conduct the electricity and magnetism of our thoughts before and after awareness dawns – is all us. And we never need predictions from someone else when we are firmly secure in this place. xo

    • #6416
      Iratxe Mendi

      Hello @lift-the-fog, @linda, @anhp and @rosereiki,

      What an interesting (and more) topic you opened @lift-the-fog Antonia…there are so many words that come to mind that I just leave here a post that I read a while ago written by Charlie Obert. A text that I feel connects to this thread:

      I sent him an email to know if it was OK to share it on the forum and here it is :)

      I found his web when I was “researching” Saturn and the feminine, and from that moment I keep coming back. (To me) he carries a lot of wisdom.

      I would love to know what you feel-think about this Hall of Mirrors…

      • #6419

        Hi everyone!

        , thanks for sharing the link to Charlie Obert’s post on “Hall of Mirrors.” I agree with Charlie’s conclusion that the observer’s ingrained outlook/way of looking at things (internal programming) closely affects what that observer sees and how the observer reacts/acts in response to the interpretations of one’s observations. This basically takes us back to quantum physics…

        My impression of Charlie’s predicament is that our programming, in a sense, is our ego which often has difficulty accepting “what is”, since the ego doesn’t feel secure when it feels that it does not have control over “what is”. However, my experience has been that the ego never has control over “what is”, even when it thinks it does.

        Freedom from tyranny emerges only when one’s ego looks beyond the limits in which it has caged itself. So, even when bombs are flying over one’s head, even if one is on one’s death bed, and “enemies” of peace, opponents of humane treatment of people, and of other “progressive” ideals take over the world, one can still be at peace and in love with life, as long as s/he has mastered Saturn’s lessons but relies on the energies of Neptune, Uranus, and Pluto to access higher levels of illumination, which ultimately allow a person to reunite with one’s eternal, inner guiding light. Once a person realizes one’s simultaneous uniqueness and oneness with all aspects of existence, his/her perceptions of everything will change. One’s view of security will change. One’s view of how astrology works will change. One’s view of the meaning of life will change. And so on…

        Just a bit from how my ego sees things at this time. :)

    • #6424

      Thank you @iratxe and @AnhP
      This article is so interesting about the ‘hall of mirrors’ and how we see things through our own echo chamber or prejudice, which can amount to culture, education, scientific and or personal bias. It is easy to see how astrologers also carry these blind spots. It is easy to see what we want to see.

      , I really was inspired by your statement about “mastering the limitations of Saturn” in order to see clearly and grasp the big picture beyond the controlling ego. Saturn seems to grind the ego down until it releases,but we can only release it once we have learned the lessons he has to teach us, which are usually about restrictions and thereby knowing ourselves, whether we like what we see or not, we are then free to make corrections and gradually open the door. We have to be shrunk down to the right size, before we enter the door that leads beyond the controlling ego. A bloated ego is like the proverbial camel trying to pass through the eye of a needle.

      Mr Obert’s article begins with the doubts he experienced in trying to predict the winner in our 2016 election. There are so many factors at work in an election, so making any precise prediction, I think it would be next to impossible. I would think the chart of the nation might be a clearer indication, perhaps in composite with each of the candidates.

      Speaking of predictions. I am attaching, what I think is a remarkable astrological article on the return of of the US Pluto to it’s natal position of 1776, as well as the entry of Uranus into Aires and the effect on the state of the union in the US. This article was written in 2008, long before our present crisis in constitutional law, and I would like to point out ahead of time, the author Michael Lutin,who is a well known New York Astrologer, is quite scathing about the US as an imperialist power and he may offend some readers. You can easily see his hall of mirrors. Mr. Lutin was the staff astrologer for Vanity Fair at the time, and lost his job over this article, because it was so provocative. The article is predictive in a way, but more about the internal crisis within the nation and the deep division. He relates this to the return of Pluto to the natal position and the tothe Pluto opposition to the US Cancer sun. He sees this as a time of reckoning and I think he really comes close to describing what we are experiencing. As an aside he describes Uranus leaving the 29th degree of Pisces as a “flood gate opening” and coincidentally that was the day of the Japanese tsunami, however that is incidental to the theme of this article.
      I am including this as an example of predictive astrology, that has a ring of truth, however it is also about history, trends and reckoning and more like an opinion essay – and is obviously informed by his own hall of mirrors. Bearing that in mind, I think it is fascinating to know it was written in 2008.

    • #6430

      Hi all, and thank you for your contributions to this thread!
      I have just checked in on my secondary progressions and transits and
      noticed that my progressed Moon is at same degree as transit Neptune in Pisces, and they are both heading for a conjunction with my natal Moon at 15 degrees. How about that?
      However, I don’t FEEL any different and my life isn’t any different.
      I recently moved into a new house, but that is about it. All of this is taking place in my 5th house, but no 5th house matters are highlighted in my life.

      What I am trying to say is that I cannot see astrological aspects having much effect in my life anymore. As I said in my initial post, I used to be an “Astrology Fanatic”, but nowadays I take astrology more with a pinch of salt.
      All this Neptune going on and nothing out of the ordinary!! I was hoping for some revelations, inspiration, psychic experiences etc, but so far nothing. I know Neptune is not there yet, but still…. Will let you know if I have any out of the ordinary experiences.


    • #6438
      Iratxe Mendi

      Hi @anhp and @linda,

      I thank you for your answers to Hall of Mirrors article by Charlie Obert. The beauty and wisdom of your words @anhp: that final paragraph feels like a crescendo, that chain of sentences…beautiful, really. It brings so much space…ay the ego! ;)

      And @linda, I read the article you shared and laughed at times. It is really amazing how relevant it is. The martinis…the way it is written, again. I learnt about Pluto transits and, again, I question some of the rough stereotypes on different archetypes, but yet, isn’t it the way we end up living them when we live from our concrete -also in terms of the material- and isolated egos? I read what he writes about Capricorn and, having Cap AS I wonder how come I just don’t fit that much. I actually would love to have some of that stamina myself. Not in the greedy control freak way or so, but yes, a little bit of that ability to stabilize and hold time together. From where we tap into an archetype, how can we convey all the complexity of living the map of astrology with halls of mirrors and also true hopes and moves to transcend those crystals inside and outside? So many questions…as I said before, having so many apparently tough and rough aspects in/to my natal chart I just breath and try to be as centered as possible; and, at times, I even grasp inside, sensing and feeling, another possibility for living in this planet, as if it were possible to tap into our own powerful creative nature, precisely that potential that connects us to the cosmos, to who we really are.

      And hey, finally I dare to ask you two @anhp and @linda if I could share with Charlie your answers. I would send them to him by email. He told me he would love to know what it moved. I totally understand if you don’t want. And yet, I just dare to ask. Also @admin Faith, if it is OK with you, since this is your space. Maybe here you can see a little bit of my Cap AS working? I don’t know. It might be all the Libra ;) I do care. I am sure he would love to know and I also understand this my question or request might be out of place, since the answer is written for the forum: I tend to misplace the word in social places. Again, the Capricorn featurette a little bit off or/and maybe too much Scorpio up there, as if everything and everyone were close? Who knows. Maybe something else. Please let me know.

      • #6441

        Hi @Iratxe,

        I’m glad you found my input on this matter useful, too. My ego is fine with having you share my post with Charlie, whatever your reasons for that may be.



    • #6439

      Hello @Iratxe.

      So glad you got something from this. Of course, I would like you to share it!
      Please do.


    • #6442
      Iratxe Mendi

      Thanks @anhp and @linda,

      it is more about realizing that it would be much better that he could read your answers, with your own words. I got in touch with Charlie Obert when I read his Saturn-feminine “series”. I sent him an email related to my own Saturn experience and shared with him the work of/by Jessica Garfield-Kabbara – that I also shared in this forum. It might be a clumsy way of diving the net…instead of surfing? I feel awkward in this realm of the Internet. Don’t even have a cell phone and my emails look like long letters most of the time. It is something that has made me feel wrong for a long time and that now I am accepting as just another way of relating to it. So yes, it is about sharing experiences-words. There are not so many Internet sites related to Astrology that I trust. I guess creating a map of those is part of the challenge. Sometimes, I like to share with those authors and astrologers where I find rigor and beauty :)

    • #6443

      Hello Iratxe,

      Yes, I know what you mean about Astrology sites, and it is difficult to find a trusted one. He seems very sober minded, honest and intelligent to me, plus he belongs to many important organizations. I would trust him too. He might enjoy also the article on prediction, as it is quite unusual, more like an essay, whether he agrees or not! It is not for everybody. It is quite a famous article for it’s accuracy.

      Just to let you know, you are not alone, I don’t have a cell phone, and my messages are longer than usual, because of my academic training. I imagine it is similar for you, being used to academic standards. It is hard for me to imagine texting, as it is all about efficiency with shorthand words that are difficult to understand.
      I really like to read your posts, whihc are very well written, and in your second language!


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