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North Node in Pisces in 12th House with South Node in Virgo in 6th House

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    • #19782
      Mario Saga
      Participant

      Hi,
      Thanks Faith for sharing your chart and taking us through each major planetary position pointing out details on rulers, major dispositors and prominent placing… was very easy to follow your instructions :)

      Activity 1
      In my chart the major dispositors are Mars (Chart Ruler), Saturn and Uranus.
      The Sun ruler is Uranus and the Moon ruler is Saturn.

      Prominent planets in angular house position are Mars and Saturn in 1st House, Uranus and Jupiter in 7th House, and Moon and Mercury in 10th House.

      Sun is in detriment in Aquarius. Moon is in detriment in Capricorn. Pluto is in fall in Virgo. Mars rules in Aries.

      Uranus is retrograde in Libra in 7th House. Pluto is in retrograde in Virgo in 6th House.

      Activity 2
      I have North Node in Pisces in House 12 and South Node in Virgo in House 6.
      I feel North Node can be described in many ways, however i will try to present one perspective which I call the ‘feeling of silent knowledge’.

      Any meaning (as a definition or description in words) of North Node in Pisces in House 12 was not apparent to me until mid 20s… for lack of a better word i was oblivious! However, experience-wise i have always used and learned to trust my intuition even as a kid. There were so many aspects in the physical reality, behaviour, relationships between people, groups, school, society, companies, traditions, government that simply looked fake if seen from outside their milieu. This intuition feeling is silent, lives outside the thoughts, words and emotions… and is unexplainable. Nevertheless, the silent intuition can be used directly for decisions and actions. This ‘silent knowledge’ can be refined further with the right information, logic and reasoning supporting it.

      I have read in a book that personal growth and evolution is a mix of ‘knowledge’ (by knowledge is meant words, descriptions, explanations, conscious emotions, logic, rationale) and ‘understanding’ (by understanding is meant silent realisation, awareness, intuitive recognition, essence). Each is dependent on the other to provide the support for further development. For example, too much knowledge (as a simple example i can use ‘theory’) and very little understanding (as a simple example i can use ‘practice’) results in a lopsided academic development with no realisation of meaning/essence. Whereas too much understanding (silent realisation) with little knowledge becomes unexplainable and does not support communication and integration for further development and evolution.

      I see ‘silent knowledge’ as one of the outcomes of North Node in Pisces in House 12. And to put it in a Know Yourself context, when i first opened my 1st year Psychology book, on the first page, like a prediction or foreboding of the things to come, was written the quote:
      “We dance round in a ring and suppose,
      But the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”
      ― Robert Frost

      Years later i found the quote true (my view). Somehow the quote is a North Node in Pisces (House 12) definition in a short sentence. I cannot word it better. All the disciplines (knowledge bodies) which one is fervently studying and acquiring in order to get a glimpse of Knowing Oneself, from Psychology, Philosophy, Astrology, Theosophy, Ancient History, Mythology, Cultural Studies and many others, come as knowledge (words, definitions, descriptions, categorisations, models, …) dancing in a circle (or outer ring) of thoughts and reasoning, while the Essence that connects all these disciplines (bodies of knowledge) is ‘pure, silent understanding’.

      I found a similar example in the ‘Blind men and the Elephant’ parable whereby each person sees one part but none the Whole.

      There are also other perspectives on how to achieve ‘silent knowledge’ apart from studying and understanding several disciplines (bodies of knowledge). Another perspective is within the physical body.

      There are unfathomable reservoirs of ‘silent knowledge’ in the physical body waiting to be discovered and brought into pure awareness and essence understanding.
      For me, one amazing example of ‘silent knowledge’ awareness that comes out of the physical body is that achieved by a Dervish Dancer, who whirls continuously in her/his centre until each physical cell feels at the periphery of the dance while the centre (core of the being) becomes empty and silent, in an exquisite trance.

      And another perspective on ‘silent knowledge’, however this might be tainted to the way i experience South Node in Virgo in House 6 due to the planets influencing it. I have Pluto in retrograde in Virgo in 6th House 6 with Aries and Saturn in 1st House, so i tend to feel 6th House more intensely than is usually described. I found many examples in which North Node in Pisces (including the lunar nodes ebook) is described through art and artistry as a manifestation of the spirit towards other realms. Which is a nice perspective i agree with. However, in these examples the art is usually identified through recognised arts such as dancing, music, poetry and visual arts such as painting.

      Art in my view has a ‘silent knowledge’ component. The achievement of ‘silent knowledge’ is a transcendence of the normal thought process, practice and reasoning. A dancer trains many years to achieve the mesmerizing flowing moves perfectly synchronised – achieving the flow is within the ‘silent knowledge’ realm, she/ he becomes the dance. Same with a painter, she/ he loses herself/ himself in the ‘silent knowledge’ realm of the painting. And so on.

      However, if we take the perspective of achieving ‘silent knowledge’ and transcending oneself, i see art in every human activity. Examples are everywhere, from a crafty Builder who artfully arranges tiles, wood patterns or flooring in perfect harmony, a Surgeon/Doctor performing perfectly an intervention, a Teacher who educates her/ his students to see beyond the course that is actually being taught, a Warrior effortlessly fending off her/his opponents (martial arts), (even in the most material/financial/pragmatic places) a Businesswoman/ Businessman intuitively knowing that being a leader on the market is not about crushing the competition but to allow growth for the benefit of all (customers, society, ‘followers’ competition), a Manager who has the silent inner peacefulness that all employees at the end of the month have been paid and they go home satisfied and proud of their work achievements to celebrate with their families, an Astrologer who feels the charts’ whispers, an Accountant who ‘silently’ decodes patterns in the financial reporting, (even in Deconstruct activities) the Demolition Expert who intuitively understands the hidden structure engineering of a building and how to deconstruct/ collapse with minimum impact, danger or damage… and so on… hmm, maybe one more… i love my coffee to be near (my definition of) perfect and in the morning i love watching my favourite crafty Barista who with an effortless, smooth and natural feat makes the coffee just right … ‘silent intuition, knowledge and dexterity’ of mixing the flows, with the right amount of ingredients, with the right timing, with the right temperature.

      So art as transcending human activity and achieving ‘silent knowledge’ is a potential for any human.

      To summarise, in my view, ‘silent knowledge’ is a component of the process of Knowing Oneself and one of the experiences of the North Node in Pisces in House 12… and somehow it feels is a component for all of us, all humans…

      Hope at least some of the above makes sense :)

    • #19783
      AnhP
      Mentor

      Hi Mario,

      Very captivating description of how North Node in Pisces in the 12th House would feel. The discussion about intuition-based “silent knowledge” is particularly charming.

      For me, one amazing example of ‘silent knowledge’ awareness that comes out of the physical body is that achieved by a Dervish Dancer, who whirls continuously in her/his centre until each physical cell feels at the periphery of the dance while the centre (core of the being) becomes empty and silent, in an exquisite trance.

      To this, I just want to add that with your NN in Pisces also sitting in the 12th naturally Piscean house, there would probably be an extra emphasis on finding purpose in things belonging to the subconscious realm, including dreams, various forms of inner/instinct-driven healing through spirituality, and so on, almost reaching levels of a psychic, with all of this occurring invisibly to others and some extent to you, too, at the level of your body’s/mind’s matrix.

      I have one question on the following that you mentioned in your response:

      I have Pluto in retrograde in Virgo in 6th House [with Mars in] Aries and Saturn in 1st House, so I tend to feel 6th House more intensely than is usually described.

      What type of events or happenings indicate to you that you are feeling 6th House more intensely than is usually described? I assume you are referring to SN in Virgo, in your 6th house, pulling you in that direction, but how/in what forms does SN in Virgo manifest in your life? Just want to compare some notes on that. Thanks!

      Glad to see you enjoying the process of expanding your self-knowledge through the activities in this course!

      • #19795
        Mario Saga
        Participant

        Hi Anahit,
        Thanks heaps for your feedback :)

        You have touched nicely on my initial Dervish Dancer example with the following thoughts of your own:

        ‘… various forms of inner/instinct-driven healing through spirituality, and so on, almost reaching levels of a psychic, with all of this occurring invisibly to others and some extent to you, too, at the level of your body’s/mind’s matrix.’

        because my intuition feeling is that you have intuit somehow that i also merged into the Dervish Dancer’s trance and you have perceived that by reading between the lines (on the paragraph you quoted).

        Can you please let me know if that is so?

        Because indeed, in the paragraph, the felt ‘exquisite trance’ was mine by watching (initially) and shifting (afterwards) with the Dervish Dancer. However, the Dervish Dancer (who i was watching) was long gone out of the physical body sensation and into inner bliss.

        Somehow this type of ‘shift’, which could be trance and bliss for a 12th House, can be achieved on an opposite polarity feeling of ‘unbliss’ in 6th House. So a bit of an answer lies within your question.

        Though i will present my 6th House experiences from a different, more direct perspective… and not one-dimension perspective but a 3-dimensions perspective – I guess one perspective for each planet :)

        Planets which I feel are involved in 6th House and what they mean
        Mars, Saturn and Pluto are all major players in 6th House. Pluto for me in 6th House means ‘crisis’ and Pluto in Virgo means ‘the Devil is in the details’ – (all words i use in this message do not have religious connotations). Saturn means ‘structures’, ‘discipline’ and ‘patience’ which are also main components for ‘strategy’. And Mars just means ‘action’ and ‘direct involvement’.

        Dimension 1
        My current line of work is business management consulting which i started early 20s. I love business management, however there is a hidden aspect/dimension for my love of it. I will explain this in 2nd dimension.
        In business management i am involved a good deal of time in business transformations (maybe Pluto)… this happens when a company is in crisis or needs expansion or needs business turnaround. So I am very familiar with crisis management in companies (in dire situations) and taking the organisation, owners, employees through the challenging times, whether the company recovers and continues business or not.
        I am also involved in business strategy and how it gets implemented step by step (maybe Saturn).
        As an example this is what i do right now, every week, managing strategy and change during the current economic challenges (rather crisis).

        Dimension 2
        Is Mars tainted. Since early age i have done marital arts and continued to do so. There is a necessity for Mars and Saturn to know each other and this is a good mixing activity, get together and be merry activity. Before my 20s i have also done mandatory military officer school so i am familiar with military strategy. I have even contemplated to become military strategist.

        Dimension 3
        This is pure cycle and crisis. I have mentioned in my 8th House post that i can define my life in spans of 7 years. I have been fortunate to observe and even been involved in many crisis situations. I say fortunate because i learned a lot, lessons are like concentrated pills of knowledge, sometimes life-altering. However intensity-wise is pretty intense.
        I have been involved directly or indirectly in (my definition of) heavy family crisis (this is 4th House). I have been involved in managing company crisis and transformations in many industries and in many countries. And I have witnessed and be indirectly involved in country crisis whereby governments where toppled from one day to another and entire economic systems collapsed leaving nothing but dust. Social upheavals which included violence in the streets. And the aftermath of trying to rebuild a workable (6th House) new economic normality and system… the PAINFUL rebirth process of SOCIETIES and its’ PEOPLE trying to survive and bring some sense to the economic ruin, while endeavouring to build new social/system relationships (new governments, new parties, new companies, new education, …). Sometimes only tears can silently describe this social process. And just to make it more evident for me, i have lived in 2 countries which went through economic and government system changes/crisis.

        So, to put the dimensions together. I don’t see business management and work environment (6th House) as the successful portrayal in Hollywood movies in which a Businesswoman or Businessman achieve amazing levels of wealth and ‘live happily ever after’. I see business and work environment as a life cycle (that is the proper business name) in which i have been involved in every phase (from starting a company, making profits, paying salaries, reaching peak utility, decaying, restructuring, company buying or closing). The life cycle of a company has Construction work, Preserve work and Deconstruction work just like a Creation-Destruction pattern. And while everybody feels that building up and making a company successful is glamorous, nobody is really keen to clean up or knows how to fix a company which is degrading.

        I don’t see any major difference between the military strategy concepts and business strategy concepts. The wars of the past (on the battlefield) are now transformed on the economic wars currently waged and we are part of in the modern society (wars and society have evolved together). If in the past a country will be conquered by force and became a ‘foreign colony’, we now have the latest economic concepts of ‘foreign economic colony’ whereby a country is bought in almost its entirety by foreign investment. Such a country has no economic freedom. And is the same thing with a war objective… whether you loot the country and ask for regular tribute paid (after war) or you just take the profits of that country on an international stock exchange (after economic buyout) is the same thing.

        But the intensity i talked about in my initial message is given by people i interact with. In business and work place people pour willingly their energies every day, giving them life meaning and means to take care of their home and family.

        Is nice when people are paid salaries at the end of the months and go home. Like in movies, all feels right in the end. But as i said this is the nice part of the business cycle.

        The other side of the coin (of the business cycle) is that after mindless business actions and incorrect decisions or simply macro-economic factors, a company needs to be restructured, reorganised and some people might lose their jobs or might need to be reoriented to other positions if the company is a large group and has other opportunities.

        I have been formally trained in Crisis Management and Managing Difficult Situations. I had to step many times in managing direct team and employee discussions when roles and even salaries had to change while the company was going through tough situations. I can say that these sessions are never by the book. These discussions are unique.

        A person who is about to maybe lose their position and maybe lose their salary is immediately confronted with their own (my view) Hell – the strongest fears. How will they manage their family? How will they manage their future? What will they become? To walk them through this process (my view) one has to understand what they are going through, how they feel, how it feels when walking in their shoes… which means (in this case, me) walking through their fears (Pluto) with them…. but to do so, one shifts into his own Hell – fears (Pluto)… the mirror of walking with them through their fears is that i also have to face my fears… this is the opposite feeling of ‘unbliss’ which i mentioned in the beginning about the Dervish Dancer…. if one can ‘shift’ into a Dervish Dancer, then one can ‘shift’ into a person who can lose their position or employment or (faced with the potential loss of) dignity … in that moment you are confronted by your own fears and your actions become ‘heightened’.

        So this is one view why i felt to mention that there is intensity to the way i perceive 6th House. Most of the description i have read on 6th House are nice soft narratives of how people might become dreamy (12th House) at work or end up doing voluntary work for non-profit organisations. No offense to the writers and the books, i agree there could be cases. Though is not my experience, and this is possibly due to the planets influencing 6th House (Pluto, Mars, Saturn).

        And there is a further intensity which just summarises my view and feel of North Node in Pisces in 12th House and South Node in Virgo in 6th House. I haven’t used this view in my initial message of ‘silent knowledge’, though the following example describes best my view, experience and how i approach the NN-SN axis.

        There are times when you are called to take a moral (ethical) decision and action that might not affect you directly but directly affects others … and this could have (sometimes significant) negative impact for them… in this case people in 6th House. You are alone, there is no training that prescribes what you should do.

        I came across, at the right time, the Hindu book of Bhagavad Gita (translation by Eknath Easwaran) which is more than 4,500 years old. It is a book which describes how one can reach spiritual wisdom and essence (12th House) in the middle of a battlefield, even with family members split between warring factions and participating in the fight. Even family members will have to face one another in combat. Which poses the moral (ethical) question what one has to do? or can do? or how to face fears?

        I feel the most intense view of 6th House is exactly the battlefield, whereby combatants have trained regularly, prepared weapons, repaired armoury (Construction work), during the fight maintain the line (by working together, synchronised and organised), maintain the initiative through concerted action (Preserve work) and dismantle the opposition (Deconstruct work). I did not use graphic language as Gita doesn’t either. For me all planets are there (Pluto, Mars, Saturn) in 6th House in a Construct-Preserve-Deconstruct pattern… and all planets under the spell of ‘silent knowledge’ (12th House). Somehow a Dervish’s dance can be achieved.

        Bhagavad Gita provides the example whereby the ‘silent knowledge’ and spiritual enlightenment (12th House) can be achieved on the battlefield (6th House), in my view one of the most intense actions possible under the umbrella of human activities.

        Hope my answer provides some clues to your question :) and thanks for your question :)

        • #19853
          AnhP
          Mentor

          Hi Mario,

          Glad you found my feedback useful.

          In response to your question regarding:

          … my intuition feeling is that you have intuit somehow that i also merged into the Dervish Dancer’s trance and you have perceived that by reading between the lines

          What happened was that when I read your remarks on “Dervish Dancer’s trance” it resonated with my prior experience/knowledge of that phenomenon, which I had encountered previously on my own. I guess intuition/intuiting is involved when things resonate with us. It’s definitely something non-verbal, before we formulate it into words. Then, I shared with you my understanding of that experience, elaborating on it in my own words, which suppose might be equated to “reading between the lines”, or filling in whatever remains unsaid or presenting it in another form.

          Thank you for sharing how/why you experience 6H matters more intensely than is usually described in astro-resources. What you shared on this actually reads as a history of what I studied/encountered, albeit mostly from academic perspective, for the first three decades of my life. I studied the history of political/economic upheaval/revolutions/restructuring, crisis management, and conflict resolution, as it has occurred against the background of particular societal/organizational/familial political/social/economic dynamics.

          In this context, I studied Greek, Roman, British, French, German, Turkish, Russian, and American imperial histories, as well as histories of 20th century revolutions/civil wars/genocides, and World Wars. Having received, via those studies, an overview of how human nature works, I inevitably turned to religious-philosophical studies, particularly of Eastern origins, such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Daoism, Sufism, Confucianism, etc. Thereafter, some Western ones also came to my attention, such as Stoicism, Gnosis, etc. I studied such works as Machiavelli’s “The Prince” and Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War”, but I found them too disheartening. Eventually I found that Eric Fromm’s “The Art of Loving” seems to offer a more inspiring challenge in which to invest one’s life. All of these for me dealt with issues of ways available for addressing conflicts/crisis on familial/country/global levels. The challenge has been figuring out as to which ones to pursue/apply.

          Of course, I experienced most of the latter on mental/emotional levels through my mind’s eye, whereas you, as I see, have been dealing with these issues of restructuring/salvaging people’s lives actually on the ground through the business matters you get to handle on a daily basis. It’s no surprise, since you’ve got Mars in Aries in your 1st house and your Ascendant is in Aries, so you’re a full-fledged warrior, so to say. I only experience the pain of hearing others’ tears from a distance, while you have to hear them up front and personal, and yet remain “emotionless” enough, in a manner that will allow you to come up with a solution that resolves a situation to everyone’s benefit.

        • #19867
          Mario Saga
          Participant

          Namaste Anahit!

          Today was a beautiful sunny day and i was outside at a café while reading you feedback. Somehow, after reading you message, it took me a while to discern if it was you who wrote the message or me :)

          You are so right and your journey of knowledge so do speaks to me! for me the journey is the same :) trying to understand how individuals behave and human societies work took me through the same steps you mentioned, ancient history, world wars, society and cultures’ power struggles. Everything is connected… somehow through the Collective Unconscious… things that were once, things that are today are connected through invisible lines… individuals, families, societies, cultures.

          And afterwards spiritual ways such as Zen Buddhism, Hinduism, Sufism, Tao, Stoicism, others.

          I find Confucianism basic… instead i find exquisite the philosophical and ethics views by Marcus Aurelius in Meditations (only the translation by Gregory Hays). The book just whispers for me when i read it, every paragraph is contemporary applicable. The book is eloquently summarised by the hand written note of the Byzantine scholar who found the manuscript:
          “If you desire to master pain
          Unroll this book and read with care,
          And in it find abundantly
          A knowledge of the things that are,
          Those that have been, and those to come.
          And know as well that joy and grief
          Are nothing more than empty smoke.”

          I also find Art of War by Sun Tzu basic. Instead, i find ‘The book of Five Rings’ by Miyamoto Musashi impeccable. Don’t know if you are familiar with this book. I will add a few details on the book because it also provides a view of a NN Pisces 12H – SN Virgo 6H we just explored.
          Miyamoto Musashi was a samurai who lived in 15th century Japan. It is said that in his life he has never lost a bout. Late in life he wrote this book which presents the Essence of all martial arts through the perspective of Elements (Fire, Water, Air, Earth), in a similar way we learned in Astrology about Elements and personality profiles a few weeks ago. It is a book on how to vibrationally project energy (as Earth, Fire, Water, Air – 4 rings) against you opponent, many opponents or armies. The 5th Ring is Emptiness (or ‘silent knowledge’).

          And here is the most amazing thing about this book. It is taught in Business Management in Japan and by using this management approach it lead to the incredible economic development Japan experienced in the 80’ and 90’. Somehow this Essence is pervasive between Martial Arts-Wars-Business.

          The book is a bestseller. It can be found in bookstores in… lo and behold!… the Economics and Business Management section :)

          I also love Eric Fromm. I am also fascinated by Otto Rank e.g. Beyond Psychology, Psychology and the Soul.

          I find amazing and refreshing sharing with you the knowledge, feelings and intuition of reading between the lines :) thank you for this feedback and experience :)

          And just to go back at your initial question on ‘how intense do i find the 6H due to planetary positions?’ i find no better summary answer than the last paragraph you sent – somehow the last paragraph of your feedback is the answer to your initial question :) couldn’t have written a better one myself :)

          Thank you, Anahit :)

        • #19880
          AnhP
          Mentor

          You’re welcome, Mario!

          [Emperor] Marcus Aurelius is one stoic of whom I first learned when I saw the movie “Gladiator”, another version of a philosopher-warrior. I had not come across Miyamoto Musashi’s and Otto Rank’s works before this. Thank you for these references. I’ll definitely check them out.

          This exchange also helped me confirm, again, the validity of the saying “all is one, and one is all”, particularly from an astrological perspective. It’s interesting to see how, at first sight, different placements in people’s natal charts while manifesting in different ways are just another version of the same thing. This somehow reminds me of Faith’s reference to “fractals”.

        • #19890
          Mario Saga
          Participant

          Thanks heaps, Anahit, for all your feedback and support :)

        • #19906
          AnhP
          Mentor

          You’re welcome, Mario. Thanks to you, too! :)

    • #19794
      Faith
      Facilitator

      Hey Mario,

      From your description of the major planets in your chart and their condition, in terms of their sign placement, it sounds like Mars is a pretty key player for you. How does this align with your day-to-day experience?

      Also, thank you for sharing your experience of your North/South Nodal axis in Virgo and Pisces. I especially enjoyed your description of entering this space as ‘silent knowledge… a transcendence of the normal thought process, practice and reasoning.’ It made me think of a book I read some years ago called ‘Flow: The Psychology of Optimal experience’ by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi.

      The premise of this book is that true happiness is found in complete absorption in an activity that we enjoy. This would at first suggest the Virgo archetype, but I think that when we have too much Virgo without the balance of Pisces we can get stuck in the details and held back by perfectionism. Leaning into Pisces allows us to reach this state of flow.

      I found this TED talk by Csikszentmihalyi if the concept interests you: https://www.ted.com/talks/mihaly_csikszentmihalyi_flow_the_secret_to_happiness?language=en

      • #19796
        Mario Saga
        Participant

        Hi Faith,
        Thanks heaps for your feedback :) and thanks heaps for the book reference and the links :) will check them out :)

        On the Mars play in 6th House, Anahit had a similar question, so please see the reply post to Anahit :)

        Hope it also answers your question :)

    • #19901
      Faith
      Facilitator

      @Anhp @mario-saga

      Love seeing you two compare notes x

      • #19907
        AnhP
        Mentor

        Faith (@admin),

        Thank you for creating inspiring means for people around the world to compare notes on their astro-findings!

        With love,
        Anahit

      • #19912
        Mario Saga
        Participant

        …and thanks heaps, Faith, for a beautiful and enjoying Astrology course :)

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