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Scrap the Houses

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    • #4440
      Antonia
      Participant

      Anyone else finds the Houses difficult and confusing to interpret? Taking the houses and their rulers into consideration makes chart interpretation extremely complicated and complex!! Add to this the fact that there are numerous different house systems in use. Personally, if I use any house system, I use Equal Houses. Keep it simple!

      Having grown up in Sweden (northerly latitudes) I have seen lots of horoscopes where the houses are hugely distorted when using the quadrant house systems (Placidus, Koch, Alcabitius just to mention a few) which is absurd.

      Who invented “houses” in the first place?
      All the qualities, meaning and areas of experience are inherent in the planets and signs anyway! I agree with Kepler and Ebertin: Scrap the Houses!

    • #4442
      Anonymous

      Hello lift-the-fog,

      I think it is very revealing to look at the history of the development of the house system. Apparently the house system we use of a relatively recent development in astrology, the equal house system being the norm in Mesopotamian and Greek astrology.

      Whole Sign Houses

      Along these same lines, I also wonder about the Southern Hemisphere where the seasons are reversed, for example Aires is the fall equinox sign. It seems like the seasonal symbolism of Aires as the bursting forth of Spring does not hold up. As I understnd it, June would be the winter solstice, and this being the shortest day, is not what we in the North normally think of for the blomming month of June. I wonder how this works, Maybe @admin, in Australia can tell us how this works

    • #4445
      Anonymous

      @lift-the-fog what do you think about keeping the angles, with Ascendant, Descendant, IC and MidHeaven

    • #4450
      Antonia
      Participant

      Oh yes @Liv, I definitely still keep the angles! They are extremely crucial to the chart as outlets or exit points for the planetary energies! Especially the Ascendant and MC which is why they are normally drawn as arrows pointing outwards. They help us direct the planetary energies through the filter of and modus operandi typical of – as instinctively adopted and conditioned – the signs on the angles.

      However the houses are merely arbitrary divisions of imaginary lines in time and space. Let’s say we want to interpret “second house matters”. All we need to do is look at the conditions of Venus in the chart to get an idea of what the person values and how s/he handles resources and money for instance.

      If I look at my on chart, I would ascribe my innate ability to prioritize and handle resources to Venus in Scorpio, ruler of my Libra Sun. I would not attribute this ability to my empty 2nd house in Sagittarius and its ruler, retrograde Jupiter in Pisces in the 4th or 5th house -depending on house system in use- and his opposition to Uranus in the 10th? and Pluto in the 10th or 11th depending on house system. That said Jupiter is also in sesquisquare to Sun in Libra the 12th.

      Some astrologers would probably go down the elaborate route of interpreting my 2nd house from the ruler/Jupiter, but I see it as way too complicated and arbitrary.

      Well, this is just my take on the meaning and importance of houses. Would welcome some feedback.

      • #4454
        Anonymous

        Hello @Lift-the-fog,

        This is an article from skyscript, a very sophisticated webside that delves deeply inot astrology. It discusses in depth the problem you speak about in the polar regions. I have seen these charts myself, and the distortions are incredbile.

        This article gives several answers, but not a solution as far as I understand it. This is an area of astrology that is rarely discussed, probably because of fewer people are affected.

        apparently the ascendant and mid-heaven can exist on the same plane, squeezing the planets into one or two houses.
        http://www.skyscript.co.uk/polar2.html

    • #4451

      @Lift-the-Fog,
      I don’t know how much time you’ve been studying Astrology, but perhaps Houses are just something you need to cast aside at the present time so that you can focus on grasping other things more thoroughly.
      I remember that, back when I was a year or so into my Astrological studies, I still couldn’t make sense of the aspects. Like, at all. I believe it took me some good two years to start paying attention to that bunch of stuff that sounded like Greek to me – Trines, Squares and so on. Up to that point it was just “planet x in sign y” and that was it – that was my understanding of the natal chart throughout the first two years. Perhaps it’s similar to your issue with the Houses – maybe this is not just the time for you to gain an in-depth understanding of them? If focusing on placements and angles seems to make more sense for you atm, then so be it. Try to stick to what seems more meaningful to you and leave an open door of possibility for other sides of the subject to come into play as soon as you’re ready.
      I wouldn’t personally dismiss Houses as a whole. I think that a lot about Astrology is arbitrary if we look at it this way – the angles themselves, for instance. Or the fact that the Zodiac had to be divided into 12. Or the fact that we use classical mythological references for our archetypes instead of monkey, dragon, unicorn or other iconographies (i.e. Chinese astrology). Or the fact that Western astrology coexists with other Asian systems which can look dramatically different. If you seek for multiplicity and contradictions, you’ll find them… In the end it’s all about finding what works best for us.

    • #4458
      Anonymous

      @lift-the-fog what you’ve said makes a lot of sense to me, thank you.

    • #4465
      Faith
      Facilitator

      Hey Antonia @lift-the-fog and all… Although I agree there are a lot of issues around the whole business of houses, personally I’ve found them to be very revealing in my own practice, so while I always assume house cusps to be somewhat elastic I cannot dismiss the houses altogether. I often wonder whether the difficulty we have with houses has more to do with the fact that we do not fully understood them yet and that each of the house systems is yet another flawed attempt at understanding. Perhaps the best bet is to take the angles as our anchor points and not put too much emphasis on the other house cusps. After all it is the planetary energy that is the most important thing here… xx

    • #4567
      Iratxe Mendi
      Participant

      Hello @lift-the-fog and the rest,

      I had this article to comment: http://theinnerwheel.com/2009/09/07/synastry-studies-the-second-house-and-its-role-in-relationship/

      I found it following one thread here in/at the forum, and now, leaving it here “makes sense”

      to me, even at beginner level, the houses make sense (again). Lately I have been sort of discerning houses and planets, some downloads have come…anyway, I just leave you here this article related to the second house that I found revealing and really helpful. My piscean second house…and Neptune up there in the tenth with Venus…It has helped me seeing and giving value to things that were hidden, even to myself.

      • #4587
        Faith
        Facilitator

        Thanks for posting this @Iratxe… I find Dawn Bodrogi’s work so insightful and this article was no exception.

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