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Week 5

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    • #19728
      Asli Ceylan
      Participant

      Hello,

      So let’s start:)

      In my chart:

      Chart Ruler is Mercury (Ascending is Virgo)
      Sun Ruler: Pluto ( Sun is in Scoripo)
      Moon Ruler: Pluto (Monn is in Scorpio)- Fall

      – Sun is in Scorpio and Scorpio is ruled by Pluto. Pluto is the dispositor of the Sun. Pluto is in the sign of Libra. Libra is ruled by Venus. So is Venus disposited by the Sun?

      – Moon is in Scorpio. Scorpio is disposited by Pluto. Pluto is in Libra. Is Venus disposited by Moon?

      – Mercury is in Scorpio. Scorpio is ruled by Pluto. So Mercury is ruled by Pluto. Is Mercury disposited by Pluto?

      – Neptune is in Sagittarius. Uranus is in Scorpio. Scorpio is ruled by Pluto. So Uranus is disposited by Pluto. Pluto is in Libra, ruled by Venus and Venus in Libra. So is Venus disposited by Pluto?

      – Mars is in Sagittarius. Uranus is in Scorpio. Scorpio is ruled by Pluto. So is Mars disposited by Pluto?

      – Venus is in Libra. Venus in its home. (2nd house in Taurus house by the way)

      I have stelliums (both 4 planets) in the 2nd (Libra) and 3rd (Scorpio) houses. So Venus and Mercury are strong in my general chart? But also Mercury disposited by Pluto so can we say strong Pluto and Venus effects in my chart generally?

      In my 1st, 7th and 10th houses there are no planets. I have Mars and Neptune in the 4th house. (IC) So 4th and 10th houses are opposites, it means MC also should be effected this Mars and Neptune energy as well?

      I have Mercury Retrograde normally in my natal chart in Scorpio in the 3rd house. So I guess Mercury retrograde periods do not effect me directly as I used to live with that.

      My North Node is in Leo in the 12th house and South Node in Aquarius in the 6th house. Normally North Node in Leo should be very strong and so outgoing and popular. But to have it in the 12th house makes it a bit difficult. I have been struggling to show myself in the 12th house.
      So should I understand this placement like: I should be an introvert star? Or queen of the subconscious? Or be like a star but in humble way?

      I hope I could summarize all of the subjects properly.

      By the way, this week’s lesson made me feel so excited.

      Thank you Faith:)
      Asli

    • #19729
      Asli Ceylan
      Participant

      One more thing I want to add about the angles.
      I have both all 15 degrees Chiron(9th H), North Node(12th H) and Sun(3rd H) in a big triangle. I found that so interesting that both of them at the same degree.

    • #19730

      Asli,
      so happy to see you so enthusiastic about this week’s lesson!
      Let’s see if I can clarify some of the things you asked about:

      Typically, when we talk about a dispositor, we talk about the one planet that rules the sign another planet’s in. Every planet in your chart has a dispositor unless the planet in question is “home” in its own sign. Any other planet will be a guest in someone else’s house. But the owner of said house might be a guest itself, in someone else’s house, and so on, and so forth. One chart can have one or more final dispositors too, basically the planet, or planets, that you find at the end of this chain of associations.

      I.e.: in the case of your Scorpio Sun, its dispositor would be Pluto (Mars too, if you factor in traditional rulership alongside modern).
      Mercury’s dispositor is Pluto, too, like you observed.
      Venus is in her own domicile; she doesn’t have a dispositor. She’s home. She can do whatever she wants. She is, however, the dispositor of Pluto, for instance, since your Pluto is in Libra. She is definitely one of the final dispositors in your chart.
      Your Mars and Neptune in Sagittarius would have Jupiter as their own dispositor, so you would have to look at your placement of Jupiter, see who rules the sign that hosts Jupiter, and follow through with the associations until you reach the last link of the chain.

      I hope this was an understandable explanation, but if it wasn’t, as usual, feel free to ask!

      I have Mars and Neptune in the 4th house. (IC) So 4th and 10th houses are opposites, it means MC also should be effected this Mars and Neptune energy as well?

      A planet that occupies your foundations, your roots, does effect your fruits. So yes — we could say that everything that goes on in the 4H impacts the 10H as well; however, we can speak of an actual opposition between planets and point if the orb is tight enough, which would mean that the planets would have to be pretty close to the IC (the opposite of the MC) in order to “oppose” the actual Midheaven. How close depends on the orbs you use (the “gap” you tolerate in terms of degrees between exact aspect and an aspect that is approximate); I for one use pretty tight orbs, not more than 6 degrees of “gap” for oppositions, squares and trines, a bit less for sextiles, even less for quincunxes and something more than 6 degrees if the aspect involves the two luminaries.

      • #19743
        Asli Ceylan
        Participant

        Hi Cristina,

        As Faith also found out that my Jupiter is also in Libra so my final dispositor is only Venus. It is good to know how Venus I am:)

        For the 4th/10th houseses opposition, as you said below 6 degrees, it is not a bid deal as I understood. So in my case, it seems not pretty important the effects of the 10th house.

    • #19733
      Faith
      Facilitator

      Hi Asli,

      You are one of the few people who have just one final dispositor, Venus, which pretty much makes her the Queen of your chart. Would be great to look into working with any one of the many Venus goddesses throughout mythology. Find one that resonates for you and incorporate her into your ritual practice, affirmations or visualisations. Alternatively use runes or tarot cards as focal points to strengthen this archetype and help you express her energy in the most positive and empowered way in your life.

      Re the North and South Nodes. Firstly just to clarify, the North Node is the one that is harder to manifest, the South Node an archetype we are comfortable with. So in the 12th House your Leo is doubly hard to express!

      So should I understand this placement like: I should be an introvert star? Or queen of the subconscious? Or be like a star but in humble way?

      Leo in the 12th suggests a person whose creativity flows directly from the sub-conscious, the most powerful kind of creativity in my opinion, when you are sort of like a vessel for divine inspiration. However putting the product of that creative process ‘out there’ may be difficult. It may be worth finding someone to team up with to help with this more visible aspect of Leo, such as a marketing manager or an agent.

      Also once you start working with your progressed chart you will find that when it is time to express Leo he will come forward. Maybe through shifting house cusps or ascendant or progressed Moon placement. I had a wee peek at your progressed chart out of curiosity and I see that Leo is now on the 11th House cusp and the progressed Moon will trine the Leo North Node in a bit over a years time so that will be a great window of opportunity to express that energy, especially within a community setting (11H).

      I will teach you more about the progressed chart when we get to the lesson on astro.com.

      Finally, that lovely triangle you’ve noticed:

      (I) have all 15 degrees Chiron, North Node and Sun in a big triangle.

      If you remember that the South Node is at the other side of the chart from the North Node you will see that it’s not a triangle but a square. A fixed grand square to be exact! It suggests great challenge but also great success if you are able to rise to that challenge. More on this in the lesson on aspects.

      Glad you’re enjoying this process. It’s a real affirmation to this other person who finds the Leo archetype a bit of an unpleasant necessity ;)

      • #19744
        Asli Ceylan
        Participant

        @admin

        Hi Faith,

        Finally to learn my final and only dispositor planet, Venus made my day, thank you:)
        I will search and check how can I add into my life.
        I just started to make my phone and laptop wallpapers as the famous painting, The Birth of Venus by Botticelli!

        If you remember that the South Node is at the other side of the chart from the North Node you will see that it’s not a triangle but a square. A fixed grand square to be exact! It suggests great challenge but also great success if you are able to rise to that challenge. More on this in the lesson on aspects.

        I a bit searched for the fixed grand cross placement and a bit scared. They call it as also Grand Curse! I believe in my case I don’t feel like that bad and also hope. But I think it is more about inner world for the fixed signs as I understood. So as you wrote more challenging but also could be rewarding too.

        • #19761
          Faith
          Facilitator

          Grand curse my arse! Some of the most incredible people in history had grand crosses in their charts. I talk about this aspect formation in some depth in the upcoming lesson on aspects so we can explore this further next week if you like.

          One important thing about the grand cross is that the discomfort it creates pushes us into action and this creates change in our lives.

          But the grand square also creates a tension that can ultimately lead to great strength and stability. If you imagine a house with four corners for example. But you must ensure that all four pillars of the house are strong or things can easily collapse in on themselves.

          If you look at your four pillars:

          Packed Scorpio 3rd House
          South Node in Aquarius in the 6th
          Chiron in Taurus in the 9th
          North Node in Leo in the 12th

          I would guess you express Scorpio most strongly, then Aquarius, Taurus and finally Leo. what do you think? Do you see the value in strengthening the weaker archetype in this pattern?

          Also, there is the question of whether it is relevant to consider aspects to points such as North Node, Ascendant or Mid-heaven. I am still undecided so it would be interesting to hear from you how you experience the tension between the Fixed archetypes in your psyche… X

        • #19767
          Asli Ceylan
          Participant

          Nice questions…

          I would guess you express Scorpio most strongly, then Aquarius, Taurus and finally Leo. what do you think? Do you see the value in strengthening the weaker archetype in this pattern?

          I guess my weakest point is Leo side. It makes me feel so uncomfortable to show my Leo side. But I think it is a blockage in the beginning. If I can pass that barrier, I might know how to handle what is waiting for me. But the first step is the most difficult one. So I keep myself one step back and not to go forward. Also I think I still don’t know at which area I am so good enough to show myself. I don’t want to be an average person to show myself. If I have a strong skill or knowledge, I would be more confident to achieve it.

          Also, there is the question of whether it is relevant to consider aspects to points such as North Node, Ascendant or Mid-heaven. I am still undecided so it would be interesting to hear from you how you experience the tension between the Fixed archetypes in your psyche

          These thinking might come from my Ascendant (Virgo)? If you do something, do it perfect?

          So, I guess a bit low self-esteem issues and perfection desire are mixed in within me.

          I don’t know if these thoughts help you understand my psyche…

        • #19777
          Faith
          Facilitator

          For sure they help Asli, and more importantly I hope they help you to understand your own psyche better :)

          I wanted to say, on the subject of Leo and showing yourself as an ‘average person,’ I wonder if perhaps we misinterpret Leo a bit, and if it might be helpful to go back to Leo’s ruler to see his power more clearly and truly.

          Leo’s ruler is the Sun, the source of life on Earth. The Sun shines on everyone without discrimination, it is a gift that keeps on giving, day after day.

          When we say to ourselves that our light (insight) and warmth (love) is not good enough, we deprive others of it. The Sun just wants to shine, to give, to create, to manifest. We, on the other hand, get all muddled up with worries about whether our light and warmth is good enough, or at least I do!

          Remember that the Sun is the divine creative spark within us. It is our magic. We have been born with this power but so many of us feel we are not worthy to use it.

          The archetype of Leo in it’s strength is supremely confident but without ego. Generous, warm, open, and shining with love for everyone and everything around them. They create not to show off but simply to enrich the chorus of humanity with their own unique voice.

        • #19908

          I absolutely second what Faith has to say about the archetype of Leo, and I think that much of what we witness today in terms of how this energy operates in our society might be a tad distorted.

          It’s true, the average person might express this energy in a showy, perhaps even attention-seeking way, but that, after all, reflects a need to obtain validation from outside sources more than anything else.

          As Faith said, Leo is ruled by the Sun. The Sun most certainly doesn’t need to be the center of attention in order to support life on this planet! He just does what he does best. Sun things. Life-giving things. When you give your gifts from the heart, to the world, you just can’t help but shine effortlessly, no matter who is witnessing your creativity.

          (I totally say this as someone who struggles with expressing her Leo energy, much like you say! Sorry, this is a bit graphic probably, but to give you an idea of my level of non-Leo-ness, yesterday I was just thinking ‘man, I would totally rather shove ginger up my butt than take selfies‘).

    • #19773

      Asli, weighing in to add my two cents on the Grand Cross subject, because hi! Same! I have a Cardinal Grand Cross in my chart involving Moon, Mars, Neptune and Chiron, and while it’s definitely not easy to manage, I guess that kind of energy came in handy more than once in my life when I needed to make things happen in order to move out of stagnant situations. “With great power comes great responsibility” kind of thing!
      I definitely second Faith – you need not be afraid of this natal formation in your chart. In your case, generally speaking, being a Fixed Grand Cross, it’s surely a pattern that hints at a tremendous tenacity and staying power. In your case, the ‘great responsibility‘ is more inherent to the danger of settling into a, well, fixed and immovable approach to things. As Faith said, we’ll have an in-depth talk about this subject too, so don’t be afraid if you feel you can’t grasp it yet. <3

      I completely support your idea of choosing Venus as your phone / desktop background. After all, planets are Gods that inhabit us, so what better way to befriend them than including them in our daily lives?

      • #19775
        Asli Ceylan
        Participant

        Thanks Cristina for your supportive words.

        Also good to know that you also have a Grand Cross! But until now noone noticed this and told me. So I appreciate to learn this.
        I am looking forward our in-depth talks about this subject.

        And about Venus, yes why not:) I feel so happy when I see the birth of Venus every time:) X

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